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標題: SCMP Debate: Should a means test be applied to old age allowance? [打印本頁]

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 20-1-2013 13:12
標題: SCMP Debate: Should a means test be applied to old age allowance?
SCMP Debate: Should a means test be applied to old age allowance?

I've just browsed the SCMP's blog and found an interesting debate.
In my opinion, a mean test should not be applied.
Since it is a welfare for the elderly, we should help them and respect them.
If there is really a very rich man, he will not get this allowance. For example, Li Ka Shing
We should not forget the contributes of those elderly for our society in the past.
Elderly should enjoy the results of the well development of Hong Kong.
We should give the power to make decisions to those elderly.
We should trust them.
May be the elderly just exceed the limits a little bit.

Acknowledge and Reference:

SCMP
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1066705/scmp-debate-should-means-test-be-applied-old-age-allowance

作者: chiuandy123 時間: 20-1-2013 16:27

SCMP Debate: Should a means test be applied to old age allowance?

I've just browsed the SCMP's blog ...
無名小卒=] 發表於 20-1-2013 13:12

Nesta Debate competition

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 20-1-2013 16:29

Nesta Debate competition
chiuandy123 發表於 20-1-2013 16:27

wt is nesta-0-

作者: chiuandy123 時間: 20-1-2013 16:30
nesta debate competition
which is held by Scmp

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 20-1-2013 16:31

which is held by Scmp
chiuandy123 發表於 20-1-2013 16:30

oh i c
when i search 'nesta' i cannot find anything lol

作者: chiuandy123 時間: 20-1-2013 16:33

oh i c
when i search 'nesta' i cannot find anything lol
無名小卒=] 發表於 20-1-2013 16:31

btw I am "invited" by my English teacher to join this competition last time...

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 20-1-2013 16:34

btw I am "invited" by my English teacher to join this competition last time...
chiuandy123 發表於 20-1-2013 16:33

wa op andy

therefore your english standard should be very good lol

作者: chiuandy123 時間: 20-1-2013 16:36

wa op andy

therefore your english standard should be very good lol
無名小卒=] 發表於 20-1-2013 16:34

Not really, it is just due to nobody want to join this competition
btw The requirement has been modified! Please take a look!

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 20-1-2013 16:38

Not really, it is just due to nobody want to join this competition
btw The requirement has bee ...
chiuandy123 發表於 20-1-2013 16:36

but why your teacher choose u?
Even if there is nobody want to go, your teacher will decides the best student in class to go

OH 20 , I have much confidence to finish it now

作者: kaiziart 時間: 21-1-2013 14:55
IMHO, I believe that a means test should be applied to the elderly allowance.

The original purpose of the scheme is to provide extra allowance to those elderly who are really in need. If an elderly is already rich enough to support his own life, I see no points to give the allowance to those who don't need them. Those elderly did contribute to the society for long, and I admit that they should be supported, but shouldn't we consider the long term effects of such policy?

It costs to support all elderly in Hong Kong. In the future, there will be much more elderlies as the population is currently aging. The sum of money to support all of them is very high. In addition, the major source of income of the Government is form land auction, and the supply of land is scare as we all know. It is foreseeable that the Government is running out of ways to get money. In such cases shouldn't the Government spend money only on those who need it, before it is too late to save money?

Let the money being spent wisely and usefully.

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 21-1-2013 18:29

IMHO, I believe that a means test should be applied to the elderly allowance.

The original purpose ...
kaiziart 發表於 21-1-2013 14:55

I want to ask a question
If an elderly is already rich enough to support his own life, will he go to take those allowance?
E.G. Li Ka Shing,Tung Chee-hwa
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%95%B7%E6%B4%A5
reference to wiki.
this is a welfare,plz let me speak some chinese, sry.
"如果呢D係比貧困既老年人,點解要叫生果金唔係救濟金?佢原意係比長者買下生果食下,平時食好小小"
Also, do u agree that the saving of those elderly are prepared for their life and the medical expenditure?
the limit is $281,000
may be some elderly just exceed a little bit like $10000
so do u think that this is a must to apply a mean test?

作者: kaiziart 時間: 21-1-2013 22:19
本帖最後由 kaiziart 於 21-1-2013 22:20 編輯

I want to ask a question
If an elderly is already rich enough to support his own life, will he g ...
無名小卒=] 發表於 21-1-2013 18:29

Of course those richest ppl won't take that little amount of "welfare".
However, there are atill quite a number of elderly who are not very rich, but enough to support their lives. Therefore, a means test can be applied to classify those who need more help and those who need less. Take Singapore as an example. The Government there also gave money to the citizens just like what the HK Gov did few years ago. Instead of giving all citizens the same amount of money, the Government chose to implement a means test. From the test, those with no/less income were given more money while those having more income were given less. The same method can be applied to elderly allowance nowadays.

Concerning the medical allowance, I agree that there are rooms for discussion about the upper limit of saving. Also, there are absolutely rooms of improvement for the health care voucher scheme. However, it is beyond the scope of today's discussion.

In conclusion, I believe there is a need to imply a means test on the elderly allowance scheme. Otherwise, those who really in need cannot receive the help they deserve. It is also a way to prevent wasting of the society's resources.

P.S. How to close the ads? They are annoying and they block the words.

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 21-1-2013 22:39

Of course those richest ppl won't take that little amount of "welfare".
However, there are atill ...
kaiziart 發表於 21-1-2013 22:19

We cannot close the ads-,-
Even if there is some elderly are rich enough to support their lives,
but I don't think the resources will be wasted.
It is a respect to the elderly.
I don't think we should check their personal information.
We should trust our citizens.
If he/she needs,then we give them.
As u said that richest ppl won't take that little amount of "welfare".

Another thing i want to point out is that,
why those cannot enjoy the fruitful results of HK?
BTW, my english standard is very poor, i cannot transfer my chinese meaning to english--

作者: kaiziart 時間: 21-1-2013 23:13

We cannot close the ads-,-
Even if there is some elderly are rich enough to support their lives,
...
無名小卒=] 發表於 21-1-2013 22:39

Maybe I should use a better vocabulary: utilize. I admit that it is always good to show respect to our dear elderly through various ways, but we can find a balance between providing welfare to the elderly and utilizing the resources.
As I said in the last follow-up post, we can determine who are more desperately in need by the mean of means tests. Thus, more allowance can be given to those. There is no need to give all perple the same amount of money. Instead, we can decide how much we can give to certain groups of people (with certain saving).

I agree that everyone has the rights to enjoy the growth of economy, and I also agree that the Gov should provide allowance when ones are in need. What I want to add is that we can do it better by finding out who are more desperate. Doing means tests doesn't mean that the Gov doesn't trust the citizens. Means test is an effective way to find out who needs more allowance.

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 22-1-2013 09:21
本帖最後由無名小卒=] 於 22-1-2013 09:23 編輯

Maybe I should use a better vocabulary: utilize. I admit that it is always good to show respe ...
kaiziart 發表於 21-1-2013 23:13

Doing mean test requires resources too.
if government is trust their citizen, there is no need to apply mean test.
You said that we can determine who are more desperately in need by the mean of means tests.
However, if the elderly is in need ,they can apply Comprehensive Social Security Assistance

Reference:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F%E6%9E%9C%E9%87%91
"原本高齡津貼設立的目的，是香港政府每月象徵性發放一些零用錢（「生果金」的俗稱就是指長者可以用這筆錢作購買生果之用，粵語地區稱水果為生果），以答謝長者多年來對香港社會的貢獻，表達「敬老」之意。由於時代的變遷，部分窮困長者現在依靠高齡津貼，以支付日常起居生活開支，變為「養老」之用。"

It means the original meaning of this allowance is just a kind of "bonus" .
So,I think the mean test of old age allowance(生果金) should not be applied.

作者: kaiziart 時間: 22-1-2013 18:05

Doing mean test requires resources too.
if government is trust their citizen, there is no need to ...
無名小卒=] 發表於 22-1-2013 09:21

OK I misunderstood what you meant by old age allowance. -_-
I thought that you had been talking about the latest allowance scheme that still in discussion in LegCo.

Talking about CSSA, I think you have to know that it is extremely harsh for elderly to apply for CSSA. Relatives of the elderly applicants (especially their children) will have to sign a paper(衰仔紙) to ensure that they won't give any kinds of supporting to the elderly. Many of them don't want their children to sign such paper so they refuse to apply for CSSA.

P.S. Shall we just wrap up the discussion? Just you and I are talking and it's just boring. -_-

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 22-1-2013 23:25

OK I misunderstood what you meant by old age allowance. -_-
I thought that you had been talking a ...
kaiziart 發表於 22-1-2013 18:05

I think the old age allowance talking in the SCMP Debate is about the "生果金" -_-
Yes we can end this discussion.
Thank you for your participation.
I've learned a lot of things from u

作者: kaiziart 時間: 23-1-2013 14:58
回復 17# 無名小卒=]

actually I haven't read the article hehe

作者: 無名小卒=] 時間: 23-1-2013 19:14

回復無名小卒=]

actually I haven't read the article hehe
kaiziart 發表於 23-1-2013 14:58

hehe

naughty boy

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